Discussion:
ATE Brake Master Help
eric.carter-ae/4rV3yS3tWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-05-14 01:29:47 UTC
Permalink
My '71 96 winter beater had some soft brakes the last month or so I drove it. I pulled the master and found it leaking, so got a rebuild kit. This weekend, I took it apart and things seemed pretty clean- no pitting of the bore. I carefully cleaned everything and rebuilt it and put it in the car. Driver's front bled fine. Went to the passenger front and no juice came out the bleed screw on the caliper. Took off the fitting at the master- no juice there either. Okay.


Took it apart again. This time I pulled the plastic reservoir off along with the rubber fittings and made sure the holes were clear (there are two for each, a small one and a bigger one). Put it all back together. Driver's side bleeds fine and nothing out the passenger side. Same as before.


Went to my parts stash and found two ATE brake master's. One pretty good and one pretty rusty. Took apart the good one, looking carefully to compare this one to the rebuilt one and it matches- all the seals, springs, washers, etc are correct. Cleaned out THIS one and rebuilt it, using the same rubber parts from the rebuild kit. Got the SAME RESULT.


Now I'm getting frustrated.


Took it apart again, went over it and over it, comparing it to the manual. Everything looks right. Put it back together. This time I filled it with fluid on the bench. I pressed the plunger a couple of times and got two streams of fluid shooting out. Put it in the car... you guessed it, driver's side bleeds fine, nothing from the passenger side. Again took off the fitting at the master, pushed the pedal and no juice comes out the master.


What gives? Any thoughts on why this could be with two different master cylinders? Note that the brake line connected to the passenger side is the one deepest into the master.


It's as if fluid doesn't drain down into that deeper end of the master, once it's on the car.


This ATE master has the little screw half way down the cylinder. In order to get the deeper piston out, you loosen the screw. Once assembled, you tighten it. Does it have anything to do with that?


My wife says she's had enough of me fooling with this- tired of me smelling of Castrol LMA and tired of "DOWN... UP...DOWN AGAIN...HOLD IT DOWN... UP...". Told me tonight "ask your Saab friends. They'll help you out!"


So what do you say? Anybody got advice? Or a good working late model ATE master????


eric in vermont
'johnsaab99-ntQ8I44N4zM@public.gmane.org' johnsaab99-ntQ8I44N4zM@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-05-14 03:15:31 UTC
Permalink
plugged flexible brake line !

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "eric.carter-ae/4rV3yS3tWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]" <vSAAB-***@public.gmane.org>
To: <vSAAB-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [vSAAB] ATE Brake Master Help
Date: 13 May 2014 18:29:47 -0700





My '71 96 winter beater had some soft brakes the last month or so I drove it. I pulled the master and found it leaking, so got a rebuild kit. This weekend, I took it apart and things seemed pretty clean- no pitting of the bore. I carefully cleaned everything and rebuilt it and put it in the car. Driver's front bled fine. Went to the passenger front and no juice came out the bleed screw on the caliper. Took off the fitting at the master- no juice there either. Okay.

Took it apart again. This time I pulled the plastic reservoir off along with the rubber fittings and made sure the holes were clear (there are two for each, a small one and a bigger one). Put it all back together. Driver's side bleeds fine and nothing out the passenger side. Same as before.

Went to my parts stash and found two ATE brake master's. One pretty good and one pretty rusty. Took apart the good one, looking carefully to compare this one to the rebuilt one and it matches- all the seals, springs, washers, etc are correct. Cleaned out THIS one and rebuilt it, using the same rubber parts from the rebuild kit. Got the SAME RESULT.

Now I'm getting frustrated.

Took it apart again, went over it and over it, comparing it to the manual. Everything looks right. Put it back together. This time I filled it with fluid on the bench. I pressed the plunger a couple of times and got two streams of fluid shooting out. Put it in the car... you guessed it, driver's side bleeds fine, nothing from the passenger side. Again took off the fitting at the master, pushed the pedal and no juice comes out the master.

What gives? Any thoughts on why this could be with two different master cylinders? Note that the brake line connected to the passenger side is the one deepest into the master.

It's as if fluid doesn't drain down into that deeper end of the master, once it's on the car.

This ATE master has the little screw half way down the cylinder. In order to get the deeper piston out, you loosen the screw. Once assembled, you tighten it. Does it have anything to do with that?

My wife says she's had enough of me fooling with this- tired of me smelling of Castrol LMA and tired of "DOWN... UP...DOWN AGAIN...HOLD IT DOWN... UP...". Told me tonight "ask your Saab friends. They'll help you out!"

So what do you say? Anybody got advice? Or a good working late model ATE master????

eric in vermont




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eric.carter-ae/4rV3yS3tWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-05-14 10:51:52 UTC
Permalink
Nope, that;s not it. Fluid doesn't come out of the master cylinder itself- each time I've backed off the hardline that attaches to the master.

thanks for trying...
Harry haroldshettles-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-05-14 03:22:22 UTC
Permalink
When I rebuild the master I push in the inner piston and hold it, then tighten the little screw so it acts as a stop for the inner piston. If not I think it messes with the proper motion of both pistons.
Harry S.

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eric.carter-ae/4rV3yS3tWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-05-14 10:55:39 UTC
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I think you may be onto something there. That's why I pointed out that little screw in my post- something bugs me about it...

In the middle of the night I woke up with a revelation- "It must be that little screw. I should try loosening it, push in the piston and then tighten it."


Harry, ever hear of the movie "Inception"?


I'll try that later today and let you know what happens. Thanks!


eric in vermont
Don Fatzinger fatzsaab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-05-14 12:19:58 UTC
Permalink
Yes, you must push in the first piston beyond where the screw is, otherwise the holes in the cylinder will not match up with the pistons. The later cylinders like the c900 also use something similar, albeit a pin instead of a screw.
I think you will find it bleeds fine after doing that!

fatzsaab-***@public.gmane.org

To: vSAAB-***@public.gmane.org
From: vSAAB-***@public.gmane.org
Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 03:55:39 -0700
Subject: Re: [vSAAB] ATE Brake Master Help


























I think you may be onto something there. That's why I pointed out that little screw in my post- something bugs me about it...
In the middle of the night I woke up with a revelation- "It must be that little screw. I should try loosening it, push in the piston and then tighten it."
Harry, ever hear of the movie "Inception"?
I'll try that later today and let you know what happens. Thanks!
eric in vermont
Bradley Burns sonettv4-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-05-14 13:13:42 UTC
Permalink
Does anyone know if 60 93F all have same front wheel cyl?  I need to replace mine and not sure I have them despite having a whole box full.  Does anyone have kits if they know the ones needed?
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Bill Trench btren-p32f3XyCuykqcZcGjlUOXw@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-05-14 13:43:27 UTC
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Try this.
http://www.tomdonneymotors.com/2008/11/03/wheel-cylinders/
Bill

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Bradley Burns sonettv4-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-05-14 14:53:23 UTC
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Thanks for Tom Donney website on brakes.  If anyone has new shoes or cyl kits for the 61-63 cast iron cyl and want to sell them, please let me know.
Brad

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eric.carter-ae/4rV3yS3tWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-05-14 22:41:19 UTC
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Oh boy... did what you recommended. Took the master off the car. Removed the first piston assembly, just to be sure. Pushed the second, deeper piston assembly all the way in, then screwed in the screw. Looking down the bore, I could see the screw holding the second piston in, just like it should. I then installed the second piston along with the seals and put it back on the car.

Passenger side still won't bleed. Removed the fitting at the master- pretty much nothing comes out when the pedal is pushed. Walked away for 10 minutes to cool down, went back to the car, and found that the juice had all leaked out, since I left the fitting off, adding to more of a mess.

Arggh!


Not sure what to do at this point...other than get the hose out and wash down the engine bay.
Harold Shettles haroldshettles-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-05-14 23:46:00 UTC
Permalink
I know you know this but have to ask...is the rear portion of the reservoir filled too?
Harry S.


________________________________
From: "eric.carter-ae/4rV3yS3tWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]" <vSAAB-***@public.gmane.org>
To: vSAAB-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 6:41 PM
Subject: RE: [vSAAB] ATE Brake Master Help



 
Oh boy... did what you recommended.  Took the master off the car.  Removed the first piston assembly, just to be sure.  Pushed the second, deeper piston assembly all the way in, then screwed in the screw.  Looking down the bore, I could see the screw holding the second piston in, just like it should.  I then installed the second piston along with the seals and put it back on the car.

Passenger side still won't bleed.  Removed the fitting at the master-  pretty much nothing comes out when the pedal is pushed.  Walked away for 10 minutes to cool down, went back to the car, and found that the juice had all leaked out, since I left the fitting off, adding to more of a mess.  

Arggh!

Not sure what to do at this point...other than get the hose out and wash down the engine bay.
eric.carter-ae/4rV3yS3tWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-05-15 01:14:52 UTC
Permalink
Oh yes. Both sides are filled.
Lester oldsaabguy-Wuw85uim5zDR7s880joybQ@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-06-13 15:01:28 UTC
Permalink
ok, what year car again?
Post by eric.carter-ae/4rV3yS3tWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
Oh yes. Both sides are filled.
eric.carter-ae/4rV3yS3tWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-06-13 16:03:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi Lester,

It's a '71 96.


But I did finally get to the bottom of the problem and the master is working fine now.


eric in vermont
Bill Trench btren-p32f3XyCuykqcZcGjlUOXw@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-06-13 17:02:51 UTC
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Post by eric.carter-ae/4rV3yS3tWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
But I did finally get to the bottom of the problem and the master is working fine now.
what was it ???

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Lester oldsaabguy-Wuw85uim5zDR7s880joybQ@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-06-13 17:15:09 UTC
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Like Bill said.. is the MC that has the wire between the pistons?

Lester
Post by eric.carter-ae/4rV3yS3tWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
Hi Lester,
It's a '71 96.
But I did finally get to the bottom of the problem and the master is working fine now.
eric in vermont
eric.carter-ae/4rV3yS3tWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-06-13 21:33:25 UTC
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It's a dual piston master, but the pistons are not connected with a wire.

I was actually going to write up a little article for the VSCNA newsletter describing what happened with it. The title will be "Three Wrongs Don't Make a Right".
GWRepRay-YDxpq3io04c@public.gmane.org [vSAAB]
2014-06-13 22:21:19 UTC
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Please do write an article -- pictures too! :-)

Summer issue has *just* gone to the printer, so it will be in the Fall issue...


Ray Kopczynski
Editor - Vintage Views

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